Just yesterday, Eminem dropped his first single for his next album Revival, with “Walk on Water,” featuring Beyoncé. Today Rick Rubin and Malcolm Gladwell release the first episode of their new podcast Broken Record, and it features the Detroit MC, as he gets candid about the frustration of his creative process and the making of his new single.

In the discussion, it’s revealed that it was Jay-Z that suggested Beyoncé sing the emotional hook for the song. Rubin also breaks down how captivating Em’s writing technique is, while Shady also shares the artists that have helped shape his love for rap, which included Tupac, LL Cool J, and Run DMC.

Listen to the discussion below.